Tuesday, April 28, 2009

If you sell poison, I think your customer hotline should be manned 24/7

A couple of weeks ago, we had some unwanted visitors coming in from under the front door.  Pavement ants.  You know, Tetramorium caespitum.  They are tiny and they come from under the door frame.  It usually happens every year at about this time.  I usually spray around the outside of the house with a pesticide and the problem goes away.

This year, that didn’t work.  I did some research online and found that spraying outside was needed, but only part of the treatment.  Another part was to put down ant bait traps indoors, near where they come in.  They provide a poison that the ants take back to nest, eliminating the source of the problem.  That was a bit overkill, but the since ants were not taking the hint it was time to take it up a notch.

Last Sunday I went to the local lawn and garden shop and bought some Raid® Double Control Ant Baits.  The bait stations were very effective.  After placing the four bait stations near my door, the was a surge in ant activity (“treats for us?”) around the bait stations.  After a couple of days, the ant activity dropped down to nearly zero.

We left the bait stations at the door all week.  On Wednesday, one of the bait stations disappeared.  For some reason, that didn’t trip the alarm circuit in the back of my head.  Ant traps typically don’t move by them selves.  I figured that the housekeeper had vacuumed one of them up.  That was my mistake, I should have paid more attention to this.

Cut to Saturday.  I was mowing the lawn when Anne ran out to get my attention.  I shut off the mower and she said that the dog had just tried to eat one of the ant traps.  She had grabbed it from her before the dog could ingest the contents of the trap, but we now knew where the other trap had gone.

Now we had to figure out what to do with the dog.  She’s a 60lb Lab, so she’s a good size.  Still, poison is not a recommended part of her diet.  I grabbed one of the remaining bait stations and flipped it over.  It had a 800 number to call as the customer hotline.  So I called the number and received a recorded message that they were closed and to call back on Monday during business hours.

This is poison, you can’t have a consumer hotline that is only available during regular business hours.  What if It had been a toddler that ingested the poison bait?  I knew that I could call an emergency animal hospital over in Latham, but I decided to do some basic research on the Internet first.

The active ingredient of the bait station was something called “Avermectin B1”.  I searched “avermectin” and discovered that dogs find it tasty and this problem occurs more often than you would expect.  I found numerous pages like the following:

Thanks for the advice! I called the e-vet and they gave me poison control numbers. I called them and because the active ingredient in the spikes are 0.05% avermectin, which according to them is only poisonous if he were to consume 30 of the spikes. The biggest concern they said was the plastic. Thankfully, Wally didn't eat the plastic part.

That was from a Labrador chat board called “Labrador Retriever Dogs Chat Forum Board”.   You figure that the ant spike would be the same amount of poison, if not not more than the bait station.  Apparently Avermectin is commonly used to treat fleas and worms on dogs and small doses will not harm the dog.  In fact, that’s one of ingredients for heartworm pills.

We were a lot calmer after reading a few pages with the same stuff.  After three days since the last “tasty treat”, the dog is showing no signs of illness.   We just know now that we can’t put out bait stations anymore.

I’m not terribly thrilled with the SC Johnson company.  If you sell a chemical that is designed to kill other creatures, you should have a 24/7/365 support line.  It doesn’t have to be monitored by humans all the time.  A properly designed phone tree (“Press 1 if a pet ingested a Raid® Double Control Ant Bait”) would have helped.  At the very least, we would have know than the dog was not in serious danger and we would not have to induce vomiting. 

If you call during business hours, you do get a phone tree before you get a human.  I called this morning to find out why this product doesn’t have a hotline on the week end.  I was told that there is a 24/7 Health and Safety hot line and that number is (866) 231-5406.  It’s not run by SC Johnson, it’s a clearing house for emergency information. 

Because of the toxicity of the bait station, SC Johnson is not required by law to have that number anywhere on the packaging.  That’s just wrong.  When your pet (or a child for that matter) eats some poison, you need to find out how toxic it is immediately.   You would think that number would be on the home page for the bait stations, but it’s not.  I was able to use Google to search the SC Johnson site afterwards and I found it on their Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) home page.

At any rate, the ants are gone and the dog is still here.  I’m not sure what I’m going to do if this happens next year.  It would be really nice if they came out with ant bait that dogs would not eat.  I doubt that would happen as there are very few things that a dog wont eat.

26 comments:

  1. Thank you, thank you for posting this. We discovered a chewed up ant bait on the living room floor this evening. Didn't know which of our two lab mixes were the culprit but were of course concerned. Like you we called the number on the box. When my husband got a recording he hung up immediately. A quick google brought me to your blog post and the phone number of the health and safety hotline who very pleasantly informed us that the insecticide was not as much a concern as the chewed plastic. Fortunately the bait was intact. So we are resting easy as a result of you posting this number. Again, thank you!! Charlene in N.C.

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  2. Thank you for Michigan also!! Basically had the same thing as the comment above and when we came to your blog, we too gave a deep sigh!! sue

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  3. THANK YOU

    I just came home to find that my dog had chewed up a Raid roach bait, active ingredient Avermectin. Animal Poison Control charges $60 for their services (Which I find to be absolutely appaling) so I called regular poison control. Poison control basically said to give her water and to watch for strange behavior....not so helpful, and the closest 24hr vet is 40 miles aways.

    She seems to be doing ok and thank you for sharing your similar experience... I'm not freaking out so much anymore...

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  4. Thank you from me, as well!! I just walked into the other room and found that my dogs had chewed up one of the same ant baits. I searched to find some information and found this here. If only we could have more, level-headed people who share information...

    Thanks!

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  5. Again, I also wanted to say thank you. My heart nearly stopped when I saw my dog with the bait station in her mouth, thankfully she didn't have it long, but I was so worried since she already has liver disease.

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  6. Thank you for your post. It was so helpful. My Golden Retriever ate nearly the entire trap. I put an emergency call out to the vet (since it's after hours)and it's been about 20 min. with no reply. Relieved to hear that it probably is not fatal.

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  7. Thank you so much. I agree,and probably will buy as few SC Johnson products as possible. I agree, poison makers should have a poison control #. I'm not as worried about the poison now, except I cannot find the plastic piece and I'm afraid he may have eaten it. Does anyone know what I should be looking for or how long it takes for something to get through their digestive system? Any advice would be helpful.

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  8. Thanks for the info I am a little more at ease, now only if my sister-in-law would be. Did your dog happen to have any vomiting or loose stools. My brothers dog does and I am still concerned about that. I did call the vet and he was not too concerned. I don't think I will be watching my brothers dog any more since he bit another dog while I have had him and now trying to eat the ant trap.

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  9. My dog did not show any symptoms. It's been my experience with dogs that if you change their diet, it will flush out their system for a few days. I would not rule out the possibility that your brother's dog ate something else that is interfering with it's digestive system. If it's going on after a few days, I would take the dog to the vet.

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  10. I just had the same problem but i caught my dog in the act...a 10 lb poodle! I called the same hotline and they were closed, but the did have a 24/7 hotline that they tell you about for medical issues and on that hotline there is an option and people to talk to about animals. Just helpful info for next time :) glad your pup is ok

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  11. I WISH I would have seen this page in the search results before I was forced to spend $65 with Animal Poison Control for someone to pretend like they were doing some sort of calculation of the toxicity. Total rip off! I am certainly glad my pet is safe, but $65 after trying to call SC Johnson's hotline which was of course closed today is highway robbery.

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  12. My dog ate an ant bait too, and I called the vet. I asked about the plastic pieces (all of which my dog apparently ate also) and she said to feed the dog 5-6 pieces of bread, the idea being that the bread would dough up around the plastic pieces and keep them from damaging the intestines as they pass through.

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  13. Well I am joining the club...my tiny toy poodle just finished off one of those RAID ant baits. I too panicked, but called poison control, who also reassured me that it is not toxic. They did stress that the plastic pieces she ingested may be more of a problem -- to keep an eye on her bowel movements and contact the vet if any problems arise. Thanks to the previous post about giving her slices of bread...or honey buns as is the case...and she is enjoying her treat while I write this. Now I need a treat to calm my nerves.....I thought I had killed my dog over an ant....

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  14. Thanks for the information. We will keep an eye on our dog and take much more care where the traps go!

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  15. Thank you for the info! Our dog did the same thing.

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  16. Thanks. My dog just ate 2 of these. 1 ant and 1 roach. According to the label they're both Avermectin B1 0.05%. I wonder why I bother with them both? Anyway, after a couple pages of "ZOMG!!!!! GET YOUR DOG TO AN ER VET!!!!!!!" I find this well reasoned response most helpful.

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  17. My 50 pound pit bull/choc lab just ate the ant bait. I called the poison control # for humans and the lady was very helpful. She said ant baits are 99.95% "other ingredients" which is peanut butter, peanut oil etc. she said the .05% of Avermectin is not harmful. It says right on the box "contains peanuts or peanut by-products". Big sigh of relief here...and I agree...put the # to poison control on the box for us paniced parents!!!!!

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  18. Thanks from PA! Your comments are still being used. I returned home from a 2 hour outing and found the ant trap on my dog's chair! What! I was (of course) hysterical and received the same recording when trying to call the number on the back of the trap. I started looking for the answer on the web and found this blog and everyone else's experiences. Thanks again!

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  19. I also want to thank you. The first reasonable response I found through Google. My 10 lb shihtzu was happily running around and had collected three of the bait stations. Luckily I caught this before the plastic was chewed up, but she had gone right through the paper to the poison. The baits had been impossible to get at up till yesterday, since they were behind plants, but then I put the plants outside and forgot to remove the baits... stupid. May I use some of your column for an article in my dog club's newsletter?

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  20. My 12 lb shihtzu also got a hold of one of these Raid Ant traps, active ingredient Avermectin B1 0.01. I made several phone calls, one to my vet who was closed for the weekend, another to Animal Poison control who wanted to charge $65. I didn't want to pay that, not that I don't adore my dog, but figured I could take my dog to an emergency vet for just a bit more. My next call was to an emergency vet in the town I had just moved from. They said they didn't think it was an issue but to call the 800 number. They were closed but a recording said to dial the 866-231-5406 number. I was only on hold for about 5 minutes and spoke with a woman that said that the ingredient in these is very similar to what is in heart worm medication in a much lower dosage. She said the bigger threat is in the dog ingesting the plastic. She said the bait inside is a peanut butter like substance and dogs think these are little treats put out for them. She said it is not harmful as long as she didn't swallow the plastic, which she did not. So although I was panicked as well, it is not a problems.

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  21. I have to admit I am very impressed with the quality of your blog. It is certainly a pleasure to read as I do enjoy your posts.

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  22. And ANOTHER happy customer. :-) My 35 pound beagle grand puppy ate an ant bait. We called the vet - they said "Bring him in right away." Before making the expensive trip to their office we Googled it - found this blog - see that we really are better off just watching him and not over reacting. THANKS for all the posts confirming what we suspected - watch and wait is usually a better option.

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  23. Thank you for your blog! Seems a lot of people have ant problems! Lol I put bait traps out for the first time... Two of my dogs followed me around... The third one was "sleeping". When I went upstairs to put more bait down I heard my great pyreneese chewing - a bait trap. So frustrating! Thankfully she is big and with this blog and user comments, I am no longer worried. Thank you thank you thank you! Side note- these bait traps are like magnets for ants! Holy moly! Thanks again!!! Loved your blog!

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  24. Thank god !!!! And I agree should have a 24 / 7 hotline !!! I was concerned because my 4 month old puppy might have ate one found the trap but no bait I called my vet and she too said might be some vomiting or diarrhea but not enough to harm her thanks for posting this !!!!!!

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  25. Great blog posts and follow up replies. 65 lb collie ate a raid ant bate trap with .05 avermectin b1 and we panicked until finding this post. We are monitoring. We saw some sites and squirted 7 tsp hydrogen peroxide down throat, gave 2 pieces of bread, and a bowl of milk. He does not feel so good now for sure, can you blame him. Still waiting for throw up after 50 minutes.

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  26. Thank you!!! I just had the exact same experience as you (and clearly a number of other people)! I find it appalling that SC Johnson doesn't just put this information on their website, also appalled that the animal poison control hotline wanted $65 to answer a question that clearly thousands of other people have had as well. I would have gladly paid $25 for the peace of mind, but $65 seems a bit steep for over-the-phone advice. If I'm going to spend that much, I might as well take my pet to the clinic and have her seen by an actual vet. So glad I hung up and decided to do a little internet research first. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, I'd rather give you the $65 than the hotline, since you were significantly more helpful!!!

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